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ATFAQ096 – Q1 Smartvision 2 Smartphone Q2 – Ability to read sheet

first_img[27:02] Question 4 – Hebrew Text-to-Speech JOSH ANDERSON:  I wasnot at that one. BRIAN NORTON:  I findthis situation happen with me several times over the years, and it was mainlybecause the software was purchased — it was JAWS 3.0 when the employee startedworking, and now it’s 2019, so there’s been myriad updates, new managers, newpeople who surround the employee.  Nobodyquite remembers, was that purchased by the company or was that purchasedthrough vocational rehabilitation for the client?  You to the client nor the employer know.  It’s like, how do we figure that out?  The ways that we mentioned, look at the helpmenu, go to FS Activate, look at those different places to be able to figurethat stuff out.  I think that applies toa lot of different software. BELVA SMITH:  Andit’ll just stop. If you are looking for our show, obviously the folks arelistening, you found it, but if you have other folks were interested you thinkwould be interested, point them to places like iTunes, stitcher, Google playstore, or they can go to our website,  They can find our show and downloaded there. JOSH ANDERSON:  Iquestion is — and you might have gone to this — if I change was over languageto Hebrew, and what I’m trying to read is a website that’s in English, it’s notgoing to read it in Hebrew? BELVA SMITH:  Heyeverybody. BRIAN NORTON:  Let’sdo that.  I think it’ll be interesting. JOSH ANDERSON:  Ithink a lot of those, you pay for what you use. If you don’t need unlimited data, you don’t need a little bit of stuff,you pay as you go and it’s a little bit cheaper. BELVA SMITH:  For atime period. I want to make one plug for something that’s upcoming withthe INDATA Project here shortly.  On May8, from 11 to 4 PM, we are going to be hosting a webinar for webdevelopers.  If you are a web developeror do any kind of web development on the web, creating webpages or whatnot, wehave Dennis Lembry joining us on May 8. He’s well known and famous in the area of accessibility, and he’s goingto be joining us for a full day webinar. We are going to dig into different types of things that go into creatingaccessible content on the web.  That’s3:49 PM on May 8.  You can find moreinformation about that webinar Easter Seals Crossroads/A11Y, A one one Y.  Check that out, and if you are interested,register and we look forward to seeing you on May 8. BELVA SMITH:  We’vehad this question several times. JOSH ANDERSON: Yes.  It’s a chrome plug-in, it’sfree.  You just look up plug-in it readaloud, find it, play it on there.  Itworks really well in Google docs. BELVA SMITH:  Right.  Your state AT act won’t be called INDATAProject.  That’s just the acronym we puttogether and came up with the name.  It’sbasically just the state’s assistive technology act. JOSH ANDERSON:  Theother thing is, don’t put anything up there that you don’t mind the whole worldseeing. BRIAN NORTON:  You areout of luck.  I’m sure they haveredundant systems set up so that if one – Panel – Brian Norton, Belva Smith, and Josh Anderson – Q1- Smartvision 2 Smartphone , Q2 – Ability to read sheet music , Q3 – App Showdown: Cortana vs. Siri , Q4 – Hebrew Text-to-Speech, Q5 – Who owns this software? , Q6 – Text-to-speech for chrome browser and google docs , Q7 **Wildcard question: thoughts on Internet security and issues with information being lost or hacked? *** I have things in the cloud. They are all backed up to a hard drive or on my computer. BELVA SMITH:  So ithas all the basic applications that any of your smart phone has.  You have your phone, texting, email,calendar, alarm clock calculator, contacts. We also have access to all the Google play store apps as well.  That tells me that it is an android OS.  The particular when you are asking about, theSmartvision 2, has the capability of GPS navigation that included as well asscanning and performing OCR.  OCR isoptical character recognition.  What thatmeans for a person who is blind or visually impaired is that if they get somethingcan should to them that is in printed format, obviously they can’t see it toread it, but they can use the phone then to capture that text and have it readback to them.  From what I found in doingthe research, it looks like AT&T, Cricket, Consumer Cellular, Cellular One,and T-Mobile.  For us here, I thinkT-Mobile just merged with somebody. BRIAN NORTON:  BecauseSiri will do that as well. JOSH ANDERSON:  It’sstill in the works.  It hasn’t happened. *** BELVA SMITH:  It has alot of stuff going on, but I don’t see that it can do that. JOSH ANDERSON:  Readaloud looks like a megaphone. BELVA SMITH:  Oh, shedid tell me.  Technically speaking, thatwould be Bill Gates.  But it’s no bigdeal. BRIAN NORTON: Right.  If you go to theirwebsite,, you can look under smart phones and tablets, and then youcan see the different networks.  Theyhave 40 or 50 different networks.  It’sactually quite a few.  Take a look attheir website,, and you can find that there.  It’s a pretty interesting phone.  Not an overlay, not software that you low tothe phone that you bought or have.  Thisis a phone that you would buy and use, and it looks like it’s a prettyextensive phone. JOSH ANDERSON:  Yeah. BRIAN NORTON:  Usuallywhen we do the showdown, I put two.  Iguess we could’ve put all three together. The Google assistant, Cortana, and Siri. But I just went with Cortana and Siri. BELVA SMITH:  Youcan’t. BELVA SMITH:  See youguys in a couple weeks.  Thanks forlistening. Brian Norton: Our next question is from Cindy.  Cindy has an employee who uses JAWS and she’strying to figure out who owns the software. That’s a common problem, right? What information do I need to gather or what do I need to figure out whoowns it? BELVA SMITH:  I wasgoing to say, please contact us if you do get it and you are using it and letus know if you love it or hate it or what you think about it. JOSH ANDERSON: Especially somebody who uses it on a daily basis.  We are using it here or there or with folks,but a lot of those things we don’t use day in and day out.  So what are some of the frustrations or greatthings that come out of doing that? BRIAN NORTON:  So youput it in a physical space? BRIAN NORTON: Question is twofold.  First ofall, where do you guys keep your stuff? [14:13] Question 2 – Ability to read sheet music BELVA SMITH:  Whereare those hard drives? BRIAN NORTON:  Ournext question is, I am an avid trombone player, but my vision has slowly beendecreasing over the past several years. At this point, I can no longer read sheet music.  This had made playing my trombone verydifficult.  Do you have any suggestionsfor how I can access my sheet music again? JOSH ANDERSON: Totally different program. BELVA SMITH:  You’vegot one.  Yay.  The important thing, if you want to be ableto use the speech within Google Chrome or Google docs, you’ve got to make surethat that’s been turned down.  The easyway to do that is to open up your Google Chrome and they go to your Googleaccount.  That’s where you are going tosee your profile picture whatever.  Youwant to click on that and go into your account. Make sure that you go down to account preferences and choose accessibility,and make sure that you turn on or activate the screen reader feature.  That will then allow you to use chrome Vox orany one of a number of screen readers. But if you haven’t activated that first, you are going to find yourscreen readers either don’t work, or they work all wacko. BRIAN NORTON: No.  I don’t think so. BELVA SMITH:  As youjust said, because she’s been around longer, Siri is a little bit smarter.  But if you compared to some of the other wasassistants, she’s not so smart.  Todaywe’re just talking about Cortana and Siri. In comparison with Cortana, she does seem to be a little smarter.  However, if you think about it, what do youwant your voice assistant to do on your phone? You want it to be able to let you set reminders, help you make a phonecall, help you send a text, send an email, or place a call – did I already saythat?  Honestly, as far as performing thetask, it’s an up or down.  If you wantinformation, you are going to get better information from Siri thanCortana.  JOSH ANDERSON:  LimeLighter. BRIAN NORTON:  Youcan’t go to AT&T and that I want this phone.  You have to buy from them and go to AT&Tor go to your carrier and say I’d like this phone added to my account.  There is a couple of steps that would have tobe navigated to make it work.  Hopefullythe answer the question.  It does to textmessaging and it’s available on a lot of different networks.  Check out the website to look at that.  I would love to know if any of our listenersare using the phone. JOSH ANDERSON:  DidCortana read those to you?  Or did itjust take you to a website? JOSH ANDERSON:  Yes. BELVA SMITH: Hopefully it works. BRIAN NORTON:  Insomeone’s closet.  The cloud is not animaginary cloud in the space.  It’s ahard drive someplace in someone’s server farm. They can just keep adding more memory and do that, if they need it. JOSH ANDERSON:  Thereis not a whole lot you can do about it. JOSH ANDERSON:  Andthere is one exception to that.  If theperson went through a vocational rehabilitation program, it may be registeredto them, but technically it belongs to vocational repetition. BELVA SMITH:  You’vegot to hope that when it was installed that it was activated and registeredcorrectly.  If the person who installedit, maybe it was the IT department for the agency or the employer thatinstalled it, if they do not specifically put in that the software belongs tothe employee, then it’s going to show that it belongs to the employer. JOSH ANDERSON:  Itworks with any scanner.  Or you candownload those music.xml files or something of that sort. [31:31] Question 5 – Who owns this software? BELVA SMITH:  I thinkthere are four.  Here’s a really cutething.  If you have Cortana, ask her whoher daddy is.  I want to tell theanswer.  You want to do a quick demo? JOSH ANDERSON:  Hieverybody. Gotta keep Brian on his toes sometimes. BELVA SMITH:  Becausethere used to be a service called LimeWire, but that’s gone.  It was a bad thing. JOSH ANDERSON:  But ifmusic is your passion or your career, it’s an all-in-one that has everythingyou need.  You could probably do whatBelva was saying, maybe hook up a foot switch to the iPad a little bit, butthen you are looking at a lot more insulation and more room for user error.  Whereas if this quit working, you could justcall the company and they would be able to help you through the process. BRIAN NORTON:  Sothere are some productivity things, efficiency things built into both.  They are both free. [Siri] comes built intoyour MacBooks and to your iPads and iOS devices.  Cortana comes built in two Windows 10,right?  Can you download it for previousversions of Windows? BELVA SMITH:  You canput all the assistants on your iPhone. You can have the Google assistant, yeah. We have one in our loan library.  We have available for loan here in Indiana ifyou are interested in trying that stuff out. You may also check, just like we talked about before earlier in theshow, contact your local assistive technology act and see if through their demoor loan library they would have a similar device for you.  I know that’s definitely a piece of it.  Belva, along with the same thing of using aniPad, you could probably just use — if you are able to get the music online,you could essentially hook up a 24 inch all-in-one computer and do what you aredoing with it just the same as the iPad. BELVA SMITH:  Youshould have three backups.  If you wantto use the cloud, that’s fine.  Shouldthat be your only backup?  Absolutelynot.  You should have — JOSH ANDERSON:  Let’sjust go with the to the actually have names. BELVA SMITH:  I thinkit comes down to convenience and a little bit of trust.  Who do you trust?  Do trust Apple iCloud?  Do trust Google cloud?  Do you trust Microsoft cloud?  Wherever you trust and whoever is the easiestis probably who you are going to resort to using, because that’s what’s easy andfeels good.  I remember when I bought myfirst enormous VHS recorder.  I was soexcited.  My insurance guy said to me,“Hey, you know what would be a smart thing to do?  Take a video of all the things in your houseand send it off somewhere and keep it safe. That way if your stuff gets stolen, you’ve got video to prove it.  Make sure you get the serial numbers.”  I did that because I did think that that wasa really smart idea.  I did it and gavemy brother a copy and I had a copy of his stuff.  You know what?  I’m sure he doesn’t know where mine is thatand I have no idea where his is that. But it’s been so many years ago that it wouldn’t matter anyway. BRIAN NORTON:  Yeah,it’s expensive. BELVA SMITH:  It maybe called something different, in a different location, but the action andfunction is pretty much the same.  Theability to highlight text and have it spoken, everybody can benefit from that,right?  Everybody.  Somebody like me who mispronounce his wordsall the time, to be able to hear how it should be spoken or at least how ascreen reader is going to speak it gives you a general idea of the correctpronunciation.  I was thrilled to seethat that was not part of the Google docs accessibility. BRIAN NORTON:  Ournext question is our app showdown.  Todaywe are going to be talking about Cortana versus Siri, talking about some of thecomparisons and features between the two. Siri has been around for a lot longer, at least mainstream for a lotlonger than Cortana, though Cortana has been around for a little while inWindows 10 and other places.  Thoughts onany of that? BELVA SMITH:  Youshould have a physical backup.  Shouldthat physical backup be like mine is right now, sitting right next to mycomputer?  Absolutely not.  It should be off-site somewhere so that if myhouse gets broken into, or burned to the ground, I still do have my physicalcopy.  And it should be updatedregularly.  I don’t use the cloud toomuch.  I use it as little as possible.  Primarily because I don’t trust that it’salways going to be there.  With that, I’mgoing to throw — years ago – Josh, you are probably too young to remember this– but years ago, Kodak made this big deal about we are going to put a thousandof your photos on this Kodak desk.  Youcould plug it into your computer and play it and have all of your photos in oneplace on this one desk.  Guess what?  Kodak is gone.  If I have that is, I can put it in 100different computers, and guess what?  Itdoes that work.  Should I have trustedKodak with my photos?  Absolutelynot.  Should I trust the iCloud with mydocuments?  Probably not. BELVA SMITH:  Absolutely. BRIAN NORTON:  Okay.  Is it only certain ones? [19:58] Question 3 – App Showdown: Cortana vs. Siri *** BRIAN NORTON: Hopefully it’s appropriate for all those who are listening. BRIAN NORTON:  You candownload it to your iPhone? BRIAN NORTON: Interesting. BRIAN NORTON:  Theyjust keep adding hard drives to it. BRIAN NORTON:  Cortanais available not just in Windows but also – is it Windows phone? BRIAN NORTON:  It’s aGSM network.  For AT&T and Verizon,Verizon is not, I don’t believe, a GSM network. It doesn’t work on Verizon phones, it will work on AT&T phones.  I guess in my mind, those are the two majorplayers.  When you talk about cellularphones, look for AT&T or GSM networks or ask your phone company if they areGSM network. BELVA SMITH:  Youcould also use an Apple TV and bring it, produce it onto a 65 inch TV if youwanted to. BELVA SMITH:  For ushere, Consumer Cellular, we also talked about the jitterbug phone not too longago.  They are the primary carrier orservice provider for the jitterbug.  Theytend to have lower cost packages or more affordable packages than, say,AT&T or Cricket. JOSH ANDERSON:  Therearen’t very many Windows phones.  I thinkthey scrapped the idea. BRIAN NORTON:  I findthat interesting, because a lot of things are starting to move that way.  As an agency at Easter Seals Crossroads, wejust moved to office 365.  They haveimmersive reader built right into it, so in the web version, you can bring upany dock and have it read to you, change text color, do all sorts ofthings.  I just started playing aroundwith that a couple of days ago, getting ready for a presentation.  I was pretty impressed with what it can doand what it offers folks as far as a really useful text-to-speech. BRIAN NORTON:  ForHebrew text — BRIAN NORTON:  LimeLighter. BRIAN NORTON: Exactly.  Don’t forget, if youguys have any feedback, maybe you’ve dealt with the situation or have aquestion that maybe this question has brought up for you, get a hold ofus.  We would love to hear from you.  You can give us a call on our listener lineat 317-721-7124.  Or send us a tweet withthe hashtag ATFAQ.  We would love to hearfrom you. JOSH ANDERSON:  Didthey really? BRIAN NORTON:  That’sright.  We also Belva Smith, our visionteam lead here at Easter Seals Crossroads. You want to say hi? BRIAN NORTON:  Ournext question is the wildcard question. Recently I was reading an article about how MySpace lost all userphotos, videos, and audio files uploaded to its network more than three yearsago.  Their response was simply, “Weapologize for the inconvenience.”  Thisgot me thinking about how all of my photos, all of my documents, all of mypresentations, my memories, are backed up to the cloud.  That’s where I put my stuff, right?  iCloud, Dropbox, OneDrive, differentplaces.  What really frustrates me inthis day and age is there is not a whole lot of recourse for me if somethingwas wrong, and things are lost.  I feltthis way couple of years ago.  Our agencyhere at Easter Seals Crossroads, our insurance is there and them, and they gothacked and all of our personal data was exposed – or could have beenexposed.  All they said was what I feltwas a heartfelt “I’m sorry.”  And you cansign up for a year or something.  So thepeople lay low for a year, and they come back in a year and get my personaldata.  I don’t know. BELVA SMITH:  Thatsomething I tell my consumers.  Forexample, if we are putting in place — maybe all the other employees are usinga 19 inch monitor, and that’s fine for them, but I’ve got a client that’svisually impaired and they need a 24 inch monitor.  I always tell them, you need to put your nameon that.  For example, inventory getsdone by the agency or something. Suddenly they think we’ve got this 24 inch monitor in our inventory that’snot listed.  Because as you pointed out,Josh, if this equipment is being purchased by vocational rehabilitation, it’snot to be left with the employer upon the separation of the two. BRIAN NORTON:  It justputs it in text on the screen? Interesting. BELVA SMITH:  They areboth back and forth on that as to whether or not it’s going to speak. BRIAN NORTON:  Do youguys have clients using it for any productivity? JOSH ANDERSON:  Forsure.  If you have it backed up to a harddrive that you keep somewhere stashed under the bed, in your house, and yourhouse burns down, they are all gone too. Then if it’s backed up to the cloud, awesome, I’ve still got them.  If the cloud just goes away one day or thingslike that, or even when you save everything in the cloud when you don’t haveInternet access, you can’t get anything that either.  I guess there are trade-offs on all thosethings.  Yes, they are definitelypushing. BELVA SMITH:  Ifthat’s the case, then we do have a Google closet somewhere and a Microsoftcloset somewhere and an Apple closet somewhere that’s got all these hard driveswhere everybody is storing everything. When those crash… JOSH ANDERSON:  Both.It’s going to read and speak Hebrew. ————————————— Transcript Starts Here —————————————— BRIAN NORTON:  Is itSprint?  I’m not sure. BRIAN NORTON:  Ournext question is from Aaron.  I amlooking for a text-to-speech app that I can use with my Google docs and mychrome a web browser.  Any suggestions? BRIAN NORTON:  It’snot the voice assistant that is located within programs.  I know on office 365 can you have dictationbuilt in. BRIAN NORTON:  AndBelva? BELVA SMITH:  Okay. BELVA SMITH:  Thingsjust change, and I think it does come down to convenience and trust.  I don’t have a whole lot of trust in thecloud.  I just don’t. BRIAN NORTON:  That’swhat I thought.  I thought I would askthat.  Interesting.  If you’re looking for more information onCortana or Siri, or maybe you use it for different tasks, please reach out tous.  We would love to hear from you.  You can send a tweet with the hashtagATFAQ.  Or send us an email [email protected]  We wouldlove to hear what you guys think of Cortana versus Siri, maybe some of theapplications you use it for day in and day out. We appreciate you chiming in. BELVA SMITH:  Somebodyis going to say, you guys forgot to talk about the Google assistant.  The Google assistant has all the samecapabilities that those two have.  Todaywe just chose to talk about those two. BELVA SMITH:  Thatraises another question.  What’s going tohappen when the iCloud is for?  Is agoing to get full?  Can it get full? JOSH ANDERSON:  Ifyou’re going to do that, you almost have to get more in.  Alexa, you could put it in there. BELVA SMITH: Absolutely. BRIAN NORTON:  That’sthe kind of feedback we love, because you try lots of things in ourprogram.  We would love to know how itcompares to other things that we’ve tried. We are recommending equipment for folks all the time and would love toknow if it works well so that we can add it to a list of the things we mightrecommend for folks. JOSH ANDERSON:  That’sif you need the full screen reader.  Ifyou are just looking for text-to-speech, I use read aloud a lot. BELVA SMITH:  It’skind of back and forth.  Yes, it did readit to me. *** BRIAN NORTON:  Ournext question is an email from David. David was looking for some recommendations for Hebrew text-to-speech forboth android and iOS.  When I think oftext-to-speech, either that’s using the built-in reader that voiceover orpossibly JAWS or talkback, but looking to be able to have it read inHebrew.  This isn’t the first time I’vehad this question.  I hear the questionperiodically about wanting a change either into a different language — to behonest with you, I’ve heard Hebrew several times. JOSH ANDERSON: Because you would have to find it easier to plate. BELVA SMITH:  If youlook at that when it was first part of the operating system, it was likeDragon, it was a nightmare.  Now it’samazing. BELVA SMITH:  I thinkit’s common for the kids or young adults that are attending Christian collegeswith Christian goals.  I remember you andI many years ago, had a young man that was using JAWS and needed — BRIAN NORTON:  Heended up using what was available — and we will talk about some of thosethings.  He ended up working withsomebody to design his own Braille translation for Hebrew.  It was quite fascinating to see him talkabout that project.  He was super excitedabout it.  I believe they have somethingout there.  It wasn’t translationsoftware — well, it was, but for Braille, not just text to speech.  How to convert the Hebrew language with allthe interesting nuances and symbols that are included in that into somethingthat was meaningful in Braille. BRIAN NORTON:  Orgiven back. BRIAN NORTON:  What Ilove about it is the foot pedal piece, because a lot of your instruments, yourhands are tied up.  You don’t have anopportunity, especially with brass instruments, to take your hands off of yourinstrument to keep the music going and flowing. With that foot pedal, you are going backwards and forwards and can moveall around that particular song sheet to get to where you are.  That makes it really helpful. BELVA SMITH:  And whenI asked the weather, like I asked both of them once the current temperature,Siri did just exactly what you said.  It justbrought up the current temperature and a little bit of information.  When I asked Cortana what’s the currenttemperature, she gave me all kinds of feedback for the sun shining and 43degrees, etc. But I was playing with Cortana this afternoon.  I would ask Siri, “Send Todd a text.”  And because I’ve been using Siri forever, andshe’s very well familiar with who Todd is, it would just happen.  But then Cortana, because I just startedusing it, it’s like, “Todd, oh, do you want to send it to Todd’s mom Shery, orto Todd –” asking me for more information so that it could get to know exactlywhat I wanted to do.  Honestly, I likethe voice of Cortana, and I think Cortana seems to be a little moreresponsive.  I don’t know about you all,but with me, on my phone, Siri can be contrary. Sometimes I’ll push the button to bring her up, and she just will comeup.  Or show, by go away reallyquick.  I did not notice that withCortana.  The minute I touch thatmicrophone with Cortana, she was ready to assist.  I also really appreciate the settings thatyou have with Cortana.  You have verylittle that you can configure with Siri. Siri just pretty much does what she does.  But with Cortana, in the menu settings, youhave a lot of options that you can configure. Cortana can actually make reservations for you at a restaurant, Sirican’t do that.  When I ask when the Cubswere going to play again, Cortana — which I was surprised by — not only toldme when they were going to play, but kind of gave me a quick rundown of theircomplete schedule, which I thought was nice. BRIAN NORTON:  Right. BRIAN NORTON:  You goahead and scan it. *** BELVA SMITH:  What isthis listener looking for?  Somethingthat will read Hebrew or speak Hebrew? BRIAN NORTON:  I thinkfor android — this is a while ago and I believe it still out there, but therewas Aharon TTS, which stands for text to speech.  But “Aharon” is spelled A-H-A-R-O-N.  It’s for android, so you can go to the Googleplay store to check it out.  That doestext-to-speech for android.  I don’tbelieve it’s a screen reader, but you will be able to select text and have itread to you in Hebrew.  I would assume ifthe feature is there in voiceover that you will be able to find something intalkback to be able to change language as well. I’m not certain of that.  May besome of our listeners will have some insight into that.  Hebrew text-to-speech. JOSH ANDERSON:  It’sschool by school.  The only reason Imentioned Ivy Tech is because I’ve worked with students that go.  It’s all over the state of Indiana as acommunity college, and everyone I’ve worked with that shows up on theirsite.  There is really no differencebetween it, whereas IU has IU Bloomington, IU South Bend, IU East, IUSoutheast.  Some of them do havedifferent programs available.  If that’ssomething you are working for, definitely contact your school. BELVA SMITH:  I wouldjust like to say that if the employee is the owner of the software, they reallyshould know that they are the owner of the software.  That’s kind of important.  But the easiest way to find out who thesoftware is registered to is to bring up the interface.  Click on your JAWS icon and go to help.  That would be “H” if you’re using keystrokesor just click on help and go down to about. When you open that up, it will show who it’s registered to.  It will show the serial number.  It will let you know if there are anyupgrades left remaining with that particular app activation, authorization,whatever you call it.center_img JOSH ANDERSON: Goodbye everybody.  See you nexttime. BRIAN NORTON:  It’sgetting there for sure.  I would love tohear from other folks.  If you’ve hadexperience with text-to-speech apps and different chrome plug-ins or add-ons,let us know.  We would love to hear aboutthose and share those with the folks who are listening.  You can reach out to us at our email address,that’s [email protected] Or send us a tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ.  We would love to hear from you. JOSH ANDERSON:  Idon’t think that’s all of the IU campuses anymore. JOSH ANDERSON:  Idon’t think so.  It has to be Windows 10. BELVA SMITH:  That’swhy I asked, because I thought I had heard that a lot of them does not a lot ofthem, but I heard some of them — JOSH ANDERSON:  It’sLime Lighter. BELVA SMITH:  It hasto work on Windows 10. BELVA SMITH:  Thereason I was going to bring up Texthelp is, are the colleges still usingthat?  Read and write?  Texthelp? JOSH ANDERSON:  Forsure. JOSH ANDERSON:  Acouple of things, and I’ll touch on your point first.  Did anyone notice that all their stuff frommy space was gone? BELVA SMITH:  Okay,read aloud.  That’s been around foreveras far as I know. BRIAN NORTON: Somebody did, because they were an article about it. BELVA SMITH:  Yeah,when it was installed, it should have been registered, and when it’s registered,it’ll show – for example, for us, it was show Easter Seals Crossroads.  Or if it were registered to make it wouldshow Belva Smith.  The reason I thinkthat’s important for the employee to know is because if, for some reason, thatrelationship between the employer and the employee ends, then the employeeneeds to make sure that that is being removed — BRIAN NORTON:  Right.  I recently read a story about a lady inChicago with the symphony, and she had this issue of trying to get access tosheet music.  She couldn’t do it and ittook a while, but I’m not sure exactly what they landed on as far as theaccommodation for her.  It’s somethingthat’s an issue for a lot of folks, age-related, low vision, or if you have avisual impairment, that comes along with getting access to that.  If it’s your love and passion, I would hateto see that taken away from folks. WADE WINGLER:  And nowit’s time for the wildcard question. *** *** JOSH ANDERSON:  Aslong as you registered with the software — BRIAN NORTON:  Itavailable three company — BRIAN NORTON:  Theother way I usually locate this information,, if you just havethe serial number for the software, you can go on to, plug inthat serial number, and it’ll actually tell you the information.  A lot of times, I think we have – I don’tknow — we have a 10 user site license here because we have it on somedemonstration laptops, some staff have it on their computers, those kinds ofthings, so we have lots of different serial numbers.  We have one serial number couple lots ofdifferent activation codes.  That’s how Ican figure out what we have and who has it on what. FS Activate is also a greatplace to go if you’re looking for the information.  But if it tells you specifically who it’sregistered to, I would go with what Belva mentioned first, and that was go tothe help menu in your JAWS panel and check out the information. JOSH ANDERSON:  To beable to do that and then have voiceover read it. BELVA SMITH:  Yes,that activation is basically given back to them and the employer can’t go aheadand use it for the next person.  It’sreally important to find out who owns it, because there also is important as towho’s responsible for any upgrades that might be necessary.  For example, we will use Easter SealsCrossroads.  If they owned the softwareand there’s an update required for me to be able to perform my job, then theywould be the ones required to buy the upgrade. But if I’m the one that owns the software, then I would probably be theone that would have to purchase that upgrade. Another easy way to tell — I guess this isn’t an easy way, but as a wayto tell the — is, is it being used on a network, and is a home or professionalversion?  Number one, if it’s a homeversion, more than likely that does belong to an individual and can’t be usedon a network.  But a professional versioncould be on a network and could be easily employer’s or the employee’s. BELVA SMITH:  Howwould he find this?  Google it? BELVA SMITH:  He wasable to find the sheet music online and get it downloaded.  Again, that’s going to be different withevery situation.  Another option would beto capture it, but my fear is with capturing it, you are probably going to losesome of the quality, making it not as clear. He was able to get his stuff downloaded. BRIAN NORTON:  Or theysign it over. BELVA SMITH:  It’s anandroid phone, in my understanding, that they have.  That’s the beauty of android.  If you want to call it a beauty, it could bea pain, the fact that it can be customized to the way you want it. BELVA SMITH:  I wouldsay for this particular listener, probably the best thing you could do iscontact a couple of your providers that are local and asked them if they wouldcarry the phone.  More than likely, youare not going to have a new trouble.  Itseems like all the major ones are willing to support it. BRIAN NORTON:  Withoutfurther ado, we’re going to jump into the first question today.  This came in an email from the Jacques.  He lives in New Orleans and would like toknow more about the Smartvision 2 phone and wanted to know specifically if itcould be used for texting, and also what cell phone carriers carry the phoneitself.  We mentioned this phone a coupleof weeks ago, I think right after we got back from ATIA.  We were talking to the manufacturer, Iris AT,if I remember correctly.  A fairly newphone, built from the ground up specifically for folks who are blind or lowvision.  It’s actually a smart phone, notsomething that has software overlaid onto a phone you can buy justanywhere.  You have to buy the Smartvision2 from Iris to use it, because it’s built from the ground up, specifically forfolks who are blind or visually impaired. JOSH ANDERSON:  It’sthrough is where you can find out more about it and findit.  I think it runs around $3000. *** BELVA SMITH:  Who isyour daddy?  She’s not answering menow.  In the car, she told me her daddywas Bill Gates. *** *** BRIAN NORTON:  Thepodcast ATFAQ, also our Assistive Technology Update, and accessibility minutepodcast, they are all produced in and through the INDATA Project.  The INDATA Project is Indiana’s assistivetechnology act.  Every state andterritory has a project similar to ours. We don’t all do the same things, but we are the Indiana assistivetechnology act.  If you’re looking forone in your state, you can go to  You can put in your state, look up the stateAT program, and it will tell you who does what we do in your state.  Really, the primary purpose of the INDATAProject is twofold.  The first thing wedo is provide information and outreach. We are helping folks understand and know about assistive technology, sowe spent a lot of time in front of folks educating them about what assistivetechnology is, how it works, how it will help, and pointing people to resourcesif they have an accommodation need.  Theother thing we do is we work hard to get people’s hands on assistive technology.  We do that in a variety of ways.  Really, three specific ones I’ll highlightfor you.  The first is our demo and alonelibrary program.  We’ve mentioned thatquite frankly on a show as a way to get your hands on and test some of thethings we talk about on the show. Essentially the loan library is a great place for folks to borrowequipment for 30 days.  Consider when yougo to the library to check out a book, it works in much the same way.  You can check out a computer with adaptivesoftware, an accessible ramp, and other types of low tech, high-tech, differenttypes of devices and technologies, and borrow them for 30 days to figure out ifthey are something that you’re interested in and think it would be helpful foryou day in and day out.  The second thingwe do is we have a reuse program where we take in donated assistive technologyand computers, and then we give those away to folks here in the state ofIndiana who have a document disability. They can fill out an application and we work hard to figure out how toreuse some of that technology that folks have that they may not have a need foranymore, for whatever reason.  The thirdthing we do is we have an alternative financing program where we recognize thata lot of the folks we work with may not have a funding source or the financialmeans to be able to purchase some of this technology.  Through the alternative financing program, weoffer low interest extended term loans where folks can then purchase their ownassistive technology.  Folks can borrowbetween $500 and $35,000 to do something as simple as by an iPad with an app,or do a home modification, vehicle modification, and those kinds ofthings.  It’s important to recognize andunderstand that we are the Indiana assistive technology act.  In order to do that in your state, if you arefrom another state, you would have to go to your state AT act and find out whattypes of services.  We all do things alittle bit differently.  The two tenetsare there: outreach and information, and working hard to get people’s hands onequipment or that acquisition piece of it. Again, we all do it in different ways, have different policies andprocedures to make that work. drive you back to your state AT act. BELVA SMITH:  You canuse read aloud? BELVA SMITH:  For atime period. JOSH ANDERSON:  I justwant to make sure that was clear.  Iwasn’t sure.  That would be really coolif I could do that. This is my opinion, but I think Siri seems more robotic.  I think Cortana seems more like aperson.  That’s been my experience. BELVA SMITH:  Exactly. BELVA SMITH:  I haveclients that are using JAWS that also use Cortana. JOSH ANDERSON:  Nice. BRIAN NORTON:  Theydon’t make those anymore.  I just foundout. BELVA SMITH: Actually, Facebook lost a lot of people. [8:06] Question 1 – Smartvision 2 Smartphone BRIAN NORTON:  It’simportant to know is it the consumer’s or is it the employer’s.  If the employee leaves, if it’s there is,then it should go with them so they can use it elsewhere. BRIAN NORTON:  Whatare the pros and cons?  If you can sendus a list cut that would be great.  Acouple ways to reach out to us, one would be our listener line, 317-721-7124.  Or send us an email [email protected]  We wouldlove to know if you guys have had experience with this phone, tell us what youthink, we are very interested in that. BRIAN NORTON:  That’smore for Microsoft translator. BELVA SMITH:  Readaloud – I don’t know.  Read aloud used tobe a little green icon that looked like a desk lamp, is what I recall.  I’m talking a long time ago. BRIAN NORTON: Essentially what you do with this is you can scan in your music.  It puts it — it’s an all in one computer,but it’s one of those touchscreen computers. Once you get it in there, it’s a 24 inch monitor, and you can get astand for it so it will stand up for you as you play your instrument.  You have a foot pedal to go backwards andforwards, so you can set your own pace for how fast it scrolls to themusic.  In addition to that, because it’sa touchscreen system, you can go in and edit the music if you maybe have tomove things up a few measures or move them back if you measures.  You can edit the music sheets right then andthere and write your own notes and save them, so that when you play in anorchestra or band or whatever you’re doing, you have that available to you inthat place. JOSH ANDERSON:  Was itTom? Was it the guy who’s automatically your friend when you join MySpace?  I was going to say, I am pretty sure I stillhave a MySpace account somewhere.  Idon’t even know how to log into it. Belva, you brought up a good point about it’s just a good way to sellyou.  I once tried to work for a homesecurity company, and our job was to go sell door-to-door in neighborhoods thathad just had burglaries.  By the end ofthe conversation, I was pretty sure that the guy who was hiring me was doingthe burglaries, because it was pretty good business to do that.  Should there be — should they be liable forthose kinds of things?  Sure.  But how do you enforce it quick and if youdo, how much are they going to charge you to keep your stuff after that?  If a bank gets robbed and they take yoursafety deposit box, you are insured for that stuff.  But you are not getting it for free.  You are paying for that box, you are payingfor that space, you are paying for that – kind of to have your items. JOSH ANDERSON:  Someof them. BELVA SMITH:  Some ofthem are? JOSH ANDERSON: Texthelp does, if you are thinking of — *** *** BRIAN NORTON: Right.  It’s only been – it wasonly a matter of time.  I’ve been herefor 20-something years, you’ve been here a while as well, and it’s one of thosethings where we kept thinking, eventually they are going to have to startputting the stuff in.  They are startingto think of baby boomers starting to need this, age-related vision loss, thosekinds of things.  Eventually the bigcompanies were going to get around to it, and they started to.  They really have.  I even look at some of the accessibilityfeatures in Windows now that, what used to be and what it is now, arecompletely different.  Windows magnifieris a really great program. BELVA SMITH:  AndGoogle docs now has the same feature that you have in your iPhone,remember?  At ATIA, weren’t you at thatsession where they showed us that all you have to do is highlight it?  And it gives you the option to speak it. BELVA SMITH:  I thinkthat’s true no matter what we do.  Thestuff is only good as long as it’s good. BRIAN NORTON:  Iremember at ATIA, they did a lot of — throwdowns?  Is that with the said?  App throwdowns, and they were comparing andcontrasting.  No one was ever a clearwinner in those particular throwdowns. They were just comparing and contrasting different features between thedifferent devices and what things could do. It seems to me like what was available in one was available inothers.  It was kind of back-and-forth. BELVA SMITH:  Itshould list the users name, because — JOSH ANDERSON:  I’mnot telling you, Brian. BRIAN NORTON:  Iwasn’t sure if JAWS had the ability — BRIAN NORTON:  I justtried what you’re talking about, Belva. Got to go in and enable some accessibility settings.  There is an accessibility menu in your Googledocs, and when you click on that, it opens up a whole bunch of different thingsfor you.  Speak is one of them, and youcan speak selection, speak selection formatting, or speak cursor location,speak tables, rows, columns, headers, all sorts of things you can do with that,which is really cool.  I didn’t realizethat was built right in.  I think I waswith you at the session instead of Josh. JOSH ANDERSON:  Abackup of a backup of a backup. BELVA SMITH: Absolutely. BRIAN NORTON: Exactly.  Good plug.  I don’t think we cover that often enough forfolks to understand that that’s a really good resource.  Is not just to get your hands on equipmentbefore information and if you have a need, reach out to those places and theycan help put you in contact with resources in your state to be able to helpwith whatever your particular needs you have. Great question. BRIAN NORTON:  Maybethey don’t offer read and write, maybe they offer something different. JOSH ANDERSON: Yes.  Some are offering that twostudents.  I know I detect, which is acommunity college around the state, I don’t believe even have to go todisability services.  I think read andwrite is available to all students.  Ithink they have a license for any student that wants it can go and download itfrom their site and use it as long as they are a student.  Which is pretty cool that they are going thatway.  They figured out that could help alot of students, not just those with print disabilities. BRIAN NORTON: Exactly.  Somewhere in the articlewith this MySpace incident, they mentioned something of, you know, it probablyget down to the fact that someone just didn’t want to take the time to move allof that information over, because it was a server migration where thishappened.  They didn’t want to take thetime to have all the information get moved over, so oops, it’s gone.  No one can prove that, right?  I guess for me, it is one of those thingswhere I don’t have a whole lot of trust, but I look at where things are headed,and I don’t think you have a whole lot of choice either to be able to use thosetypes of places.  I think your choiceswill get slimmer as time goes on, like hard drives and the availability offlash drives.  The amount of memory ittakes to be able to save that information as you continue to collect more andmore photos, more movies, more things like that, eventually you are going toget pushed into the cloud to be able to have your stuff stored. BRIAN NORTON:  Excellent.  So for folks who are new listeners, I wouldto talk a little bit about how the show works. Throughout the week, we receive feedback and come across variousassistive technology questions.  We put ashow together and sit around here in a panel and try to answer those questionsas best we can.  We have a variety ofways for folks to ask us questions.  Ifyou are listening and have a question, we would love to hear from you.  You can give us a call on our listener lineat 317-721-7124.  Or send us an email [email protected]  Or sendus a tweet with hashtag ATFAQ.  Those arethe places that we get our regular questions. As we get questions, we are also looking for feedback as well.  We are going to take time to try to answersome questions that we’ve gotten these past couple weeks.  We realize that we only know what we know,and we would love to hear from you guys because you may have some moreexperience in different areas that we do. Please give us a call, we would love to hear from you.  Chime in, provide feedback, and we willinclude that in our show as well. BELVA SMITH: Right.  I think that’s why it’s soamazing that we’ve got people like Google and Microsoft and Apple that areincluding these things right within the programs.  I would love to see the no need to install —and I know that FreedomScientific and those guys don’t want to hear me say that— let’s face it, when it’s part of the OS, it’s going to work better. BELVA SMITH:  Becausethey want everyone on the cloud. BRIAN NORTON:  I’veheard that before. ***Transcript provided by TJ Cortopassi.  For requests and inquiries, [email protected]***Share this…TwitterFacebookPinterestLinkedInEmailPrint RelatedATFAQ095 – Q1- Fall Detection and Alerts for bathroom , Q2 – Discrete notification system for classroom , Q3 – Interactive Math and Graphing software, Q4 – Aegir Smartpen, Q5 – Text-to-speech for state assessment tests , Q6 – App Showdown – TalkBack and VoiceOver , Q7 *Wildcard question: Are passwords a thing of the past?March 11, 2019In “Assistive Technology FAQ (ATFAQ) Podcast”ATFAQ099 – Q1- Kiosk Accessibility, Q2 – Navigating Public Restrooms, Q3 – Voice-activated alerting, Q4 – Orcam and computer text, Q5 – Showdown: Google Hub or Amazon Echo, Q7 – Wildcard: What type of old equipment do you have laying around?May 13, 2019In “Assistive Technology FAQ (ATFAQ) Podcast”ATFAQ103 – Q1- inside navigation for visually impaired , Q2 – amplified phones, Q3 – zero-force keyboards, Q4 – converting math worksheets for screenreader access, Q5 – assistance getting into house, Q6 – Switching from Jaws to NVDA, Q7 – Wildcard question: balancing medical and developmental concerns when using assistive techJuly 8, 2019In “Assistive Technology FAQ (ATFAQ) Podcast” [47:08]  Wildcardquestion: thoughts on Internet security and issues with information being lostor hacked? BELVA SMITH:  Fromwhat I’ve seen, a lot of folks are trying to do that are saying that was overis going to be the better screen reader for trying to do something like that,even compared to JAWS.  JAWS can’t do it,but voiceover can, is my understanding, even with RealSpeak. BELVA SMITH:  HeyBrian, you want to take a second and do a brief rundown on what INDATA Projectis for our listeners? BRIAN NORTON: Interesting.  I would love to hearfrom folks.  If you have any feedback onthat as far as a Hebrew text-to-speech, we would love to be able to have youguys chime in and provide us more information on that.  It certainly is something that lots of peopleare inquiring about and interested in. We would love to have you chiming about that.  You can do that through our listener line,317-721-7124.  Or you can send us anemail at [email protected] JOSH ANDERSON:  I putit in a physical space.  I don’t trustmyself up there. WADE WINGLER:  Welcometo ATFAQ, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions with your host BrianNorton, Director of Assistive Technology at Easter Seals Crossroads. This is ashow in which we address your questions about assistive technology, thehardware, software, tools and gadgets that help people with disabilities leadmore independent and fulfilling lives. Have a question you’d like answered onour show?  Send a tweet with the hashtag#ATFAQ, call our listener line at 317-721-7124, or send us an email [email protected] The world of assistive technology hasquestions, and we have answers. And now here’s your host, Brian Norton. BELVA SMITH: Absolutely. BRIAN NORTON: Right.  I’ve looked up the price,$889 to the company.  I don’t believe youcan get anywhere else. BRIAN NORTON:  Here’smy thought with this.  What about theculpability of these?  I just getfrustrated with the culpability of these places, these companies.  Hey, sorry, there’s not a whole lot ofrecourse and ways for us to feel secure. I’m just trusting that my stuff is going to be okay.  I think what happened at MySpace as they werejust doing a server migration, something that should be simple and easy, andthey just lost everything. BRIAN NORTON:  Does itactually list of the users name? JOSH ANDERSON:  Imentioned read aloud. JOSH ANDERSON:  That’swhy it’s frequently asked questions, Brian. WADE WINGLER: Information provided on Assistive Technology FAQ does not constitute aproduct endorsement.  Our comments arenot intended as recommendations, nor is our show evaluative in nature.  Assistive Technology FAQ is hosted by BrianNorton; gets editorial support from Josh Anderson and Belva Smith; is producedby me, Wade Wingler; and receives support from Easter Seals Crossroads and theINDATA Project.  ATFAQ is a proud memberof the Accessibility Channel.  Find moreof our shows at BRIAN NORTON:  Why amI calling it Limewire? [37:45] Question 6 – Text-to-speech for chrome browser andgoogle docs BELVA SMITH:  A lot ofpeople. BRIAN NORTON:  That’spretty cool. BRIAN NORTON:  Again,what’s to say in this particular instance, if I’m uploading all my memories toa place, you would think safe and secure and whatnot.  There is nothing that you can do.  The culpability of these Internet companies,one your information is lost or compromised, it’s just not there.  Again, maybe it is a hard drive someplaceelse that I can back this stuff up to. But it’s just one of those things is like, they literally said, “Weapologize for the inconvenience.”  Well,it’s like, I don’t have those CDs anymore. I don’t have that music anymore. I don’t have those pictures anymore. That’s the only place they were. Hey, sorry. BELVA SMITH:  Right. BELVA SMITH:  That’savailable within chrome or Google docs. JOSH ANDERSON:  Brian,I don’t think a lot of people care these days. Everyone found out that Facebook was selling information.  Who got off Facebook? BRIAN NORTON:  Belva,you’ve mentioned a couple times read and write is an option for folks.  If you’re looking for something that’s moresophisticated, has the ability to read text, pause, stop, and have it readchunks at a time versus single words at a time, lots of different features forfolks with learning disabilities, read and write is one of those programs thatyou probably should take a bigger look at. It’s a chrome plug-in, or you can get the full program so it’ll workanywhere in your computer.  That’savailable from  I want tosay it’s a little over $100.  I’m notexactly sure what the prices, but it’s a pretty good program.  I think here in Indiana, several universitiesmake it available to students as a free download.  I know IU is one of those places that, if yougo to IU ware, you can actually, as a student, download those. JOSH ANDERSON:  I’vebeen using it as a Google Chrome plug-in for a long time.  It’s very simple, brings all your text upinto a little box and you can play it, change the size, the voice.  It’s a play button, a pause button, there islike four buttons.  I’ve been using itfor quite a bit.  It read anything inGoogle Chrome, websites, docs, pretty much anything. *** Podcast: Play in new window | Download BELVA SMITH:  Speechrecognition.  That says it all. BRIAN NORTON:  Helloand welcome to ATFAQ episode 96.  My nameis Brian Norton, and I’m the host of the show. We are so happy you take some time to tune in with us this week.  We have a great lineup of assistivetechnology questions today, before we jump into those, I want to take a momentto go around the room and introduce the folks who are sitting with me.  I’m mixing this up because people have donesome musical chairs with me today.  Joshis here, the manager of clinical assistive technology at Easter Seals Crossroads.  He’s also the host of Assistive TechnologyUpdate.  You want to say hi to folks? BELVA SMITH:  Exactly. BRIAN NORTON:  Acouple of questions with that is did you scan, take pictures of it?  How did you get the sheet music into theiPad? JOSH ANDERSON:  A lotof times, Siri, I’ll ask a question, and it will say I found this is. BELVA SMITH:  I had anaccommodation that was similar.  Itwasn’t a trombone.  I believe it was atrumpet them a person was playing.  Wewere able to — he still had enough vision that we were able to get all of hismusic into electronic format, and we were able to just use an iPad on a floorstand in front of them.  That way if hestood up, he could still see it, or if he was sitting down, he could still seeit.  That worked out great for us.  He also – I quickly went to throw in that hedid some recording.  We did it with himin the actual — we use the same iPad with them in the recording studio, andthe iPad outside the window.  He wasstill able to see it.  He still had someusable vision, but with the magnification that’s built into the iPad, we wereable to make it work for him. BRIAN NORTON:  I’lljust say this, for me, it frustrates me because we are kind of being pushedinto the digital age, right?  Computersdon’t come with CD-ROM these days.  Mynew MacBook doesn’t even have a USB drive on it.  I can get an adapter to put a USB drive onit, but they are pushing people to the cloud. JOSH ANDERSON:  I hadto click on a website or something like that. I know Cortana, when I’ve used it, it usually answers my question. BRIAN NORTON: Interesting.  The other thing I’verun across in the years of doing this job, one is called Limewire? BELVA SMITH:  All thatdid was give them away to make more money. They wanted to sell us security, right? JOSH ANDERSON:  It’salso important to remember where your things are.  Like you said, with the Kodak, if I’ve gotall my information stored at MySpace, not that many people even use the anymore– there may just be the day where they are like, hey, we’re leaving in twomonths.  If you didn’t happen to readthat, you wouldn’t know.  Google+ isgoing away, so if you are storing a lot of stuff in that, granted, it wouldprobably go to Google driver somewhere else. At the same time, if you’re using that as your platform… BELVA SMITH:  I haveit right here on my iPhone. BELVA SMITH:  Thatwhen you said you can just scan your music right into it? BRIAN NORTON: Exactly. JOSH ANDERSON:  Somecampuses are really pulling back and changing what available to all students. BRIAN NORTON:  If youare listening to our show, sent us your questions, we would love to hear fromyou.  You can call us on our listenerline at 317-721-7124.  Send us a tweetwith the hashtag ATFAQ.  Or email us [email protected]  We lookfor your questions or any feedback you have over the questions we talked abouttoday.  In fact, without thatinformation, we don’t really have a show. So be a part of it.  Have a greatone and we will talk to you guys in a couple weeks. That is our show for today. I want to thank Josh and Belva for being a part of the panel today.  Josh, you want to say goodbye to folks? JOSH ANDERSON:  That’sfun. BRIAN NORTON: Exactly.  That’s why I thought weought to talk about it. *** BELVA SMITH:  Youmentioned Texthelp.  Is that something —didn’t you mentioned Texthelp? BRIAN NORTON:  Can youopen programs and things like that? My understanding is that in voiceover, you can change thelanguage to Hebrew.  I think that’s beenaround since iOS 8, if I’m not mistaken. One way for at least iOS devices is to go into settings of voiceover andchange the language to Hebrew.  Again,I’m not sure how perfect that’s going to be. It seems like whenever you start translating languages and things likethat, there are nuances that are missing and things that just don’t come acrossvery well. BRIAN NORTON: Interesting. BELVA SMITH:  I thinkthat’s been around forever and works both in Windows and chrome. JOSH ANDERSON:  Ithink it might be certain ones, and I’m not sure if they are getting away fromit.last_img

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